Dog Training Today with Will Bangura for Pet Parents, Kids & Family, Pets and Animals, and Dog Training Professionals. This is a Education & How To Dog Training Podcast.

#76 PET TALK TODAY, Dog Training with Will Bangura This Week we Take Calls and Answer Questions. How to help fearful dogs, leash reactivity, potty training, jumping, biting, resource guarding, Door Manners Why Punishment often Fails. Counter Conditioning

October 01, 2022 PET TALK TODAY: Dog Training with Will Bangura, Dog Behaviorist, Dog Training, Cat Training, Pet Health, and Wellbeing with Will Bangura Season 3 Episode 76
Dog Training Today with Will Bangura for Pet Parents, Kids & Family, Pets and Animals, and Dog Training Professionals. This is a Education & How To Dog Training Podcast.
#76 PET TALK TODAY, Dog Training with Will Bangura This Week we Take Calls and Answer Questions. How to help fearful dogs, leash reactivity, potty training, jumping, biting, resource guarding, Door Manners Why Punishment often Fails. Counter Conditioning
Show Notes Transcript
Speaker 1:

Raised by Wolfs with canine DNA in his blood. Having trained more than 24,000 vets helping you and your fur babies thrive. Live in studio. It's Pet Talk today with Will Bangura answering your pet behavior and training questions. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome your host and favorite pet behavior expert, Will Bangura. Good

Speaker 2:

Saturday morning. It's October 1st. I'm Will Bangura. And

Speaker 3:

I'm Jordan Martell,

Speaker 2:

And you're listening to Pet Talk today where we take your calls in, answer your dog and cat training and behavior questions each and every Saturday morning from nine to 10:00 AM That's Pacific and Mountain Time, 12 to 1:00 PM Eastern and 11 to 12 central. Do me a favor, click that like button for us and also hit that share button. Show us some love, click the like button so more people can benefit from this show. Um, today is October 1st, We got a new month.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Um, the weather's getting nice outside. It's getting a lot cooler. People are starting to get their dogs out, starting to walk their dogs again, which we're really happy about. I know, I'm happy about that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, it's uh, it's so much nicer outside. This is the time of year that I go, This is why, this

Speaker 2:

Is why we're in Arizona. This

Speaker 3:

Is why

Speaker 2:

Exactly. The evenings are just amazing. My

Speaker 3:

Gosh. Yeah, it is so beautiful to just sit outside and just enjoy the evening. Absolutely. It's, uh, it's

Speaker 2:

Beautiful. Now, um, you know what El October 1st is, What's that? State of the Suns<laugh>. I'm not happy about being here.

Speaker 3:

Yeah,

Speaker 2:

Yeah. No, seriously. Talk about that. I could be at Footprint center at 10 o'clock sitting there listening to the GM and the coach. Yeah. And the players talking about the sons. Right. And then watch'em practice. I'm not a happy camper right now, but we have a mission. We have a show. Absolutely. Um, if you've got a question about your dog's behavior, if you've got a question about your dog's training and behavior, do us a favor. Go ahead and type your question in the comment section, but also do us a favor. Let us know where you're watching from and what kind of dog, what kind of pet or dogs or pets do you have. Um, so please, if you've got a question, we wanna help you go ahead and type your questions in the comment section. Also, um, we do take phone calls and we've got one line. So when we take a phone call, you can't call in until after the call. Um, go ahead and give out that phone number, Jordan, if will Absolutely. Hey, everybody, jot this number down because the phone calls will take priority over the, uh, questions in the comment section, but we're gonna answer both.

Speaker 3:

All right, So that number is 6 0 2 5 2 5 6 8 8 0. What is that number again? Again? 6 0 2 5 2 5 6 8 8 0.

Speaker 2:

All right, perfect. Yeah, give us a call. Um, and like I said, hit that like button. Um, this is a labor of love for us. Not everybody can afford private in-home training. Um, we, I'm the owner of Phoenix Dog Training. Jordan's the director of training. He's our head trainer. Um, if you've got a serious problem, you're an Arizona, you can look us up@phoenixdogtraining.com. Again, that's phoenix dog training.com. If you're outside of Arizona and you need individual help, well, you can go ahead and go to dog behaviorist.com. I do consultations all over the

Speaker 3:

World. Absolutely. And it looks like we have a caller. Thanks for calling Pet Talk today. Where are you calling from?

Speaker 4:

Beautiful. Washington State.

Speaker 3:

Ah, Washington State. There we go. There we go. How's the weather up there this morning?

Speaker 4:

Oh my gosh. Well, we're having a little warmer normal, but it's just weather. So what's to complain about? Perfect. Hey, you guys, something that there was like on the number two episode or something that you really went over, um, potty train and I've been trying to access that, but I'm having those

Speaker 2:

Success. Yeah. So you wanna go to season one, episode 16, and you're gonna find that on the regular podcast that's not on the Facebook page. So, um, go to Google, do a Google search for Pet Talk Today podcast. Um, you can get that on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, um, you name it, iTunes. Um, everybody carries our podcast. Okay.

Speaker 4:

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna Google Pet Talk today

Speaker 2:

Podcast. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Season one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you don't even need to do this. Just Pet Talk Today podcast. It'll take you to the podcast and you can just scroll through it all and you'll find it. Season one, episode 16, I got 45 minutes of in depth information potty training, and it's designed to be able to potty train the absolute most difficult dog that's out there. I guarantee anybody that is struggling with potty training your dog, go to, uh, season one, episode 16. Follow those guidelines. There's no way that you can't have success.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. And I also just shared a link to a direct link to that Spotify podcast episode in the common section.

Speaker 2:

Very good.

Speaker 4:

Well, I've got two Yorkies in, They're a

Speaker 2:

Year. Oh, there's no hope for Yorkies. There's no potty training. Yorkies. Okay.

Speaker 4:

I know I heard that, but I, and he's so, and I didn't appreciate until I got two little darlings,

Speaker 2:

But well, the number one rule, the number one rule potty training, supervise or confined. So go ahead and, and check out that podcast. All right. They appreciate the call. All right. Um,

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

If you've got a question for us, give us a call. Go ahead and give that number out again, Jordan. All

Speaker 3:

Right. That number is 6 0 2 5 2 5 6 8 8 0.

Speaker 2:

That's 6 0 2 5 2 5 6 8 8 0. Hit that like button. Hit that share button. I'm Will Bangura. And

Speaker 3:

I'm Jordan Mar

Speaker 2:

Steller, and you're watching Pit Talk today. And we're here to help you deal with all of your dog training and behavior questions. If you've got a question, go ahead and type that in the comment section and do us a favor. Also, let us know where you're watching from and what kind of dogs or pets you have.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. And we have lots of

Speaker 2:

Questions. Well, let's go, let's go to some

Speaker 3:

Questions in the comment section. Let's see. So we have, we have Yvonne, who's from Vermont, saying that, uh, my retriever p my retriever mixup ended up becoming a pandemic p, um, which means that he becomes reactive when someone is at the door. It's been a struggle to keep him calm so that we can open the door without him barking or jumping at the door. He is friendly with all aged people and animals, except when someone is at the door, basic commands are not working for us when we need it to work. What else can we do? He's two and a half years old and nearly 80 pounds.

Speaker 2:

Okay, First of all, let me just say one thing to everybody out there. I am so sick of hearing pandemic puppy. Yeah. As if the pandemic created all these crazy behaviors. Did it exacerbate some behaviors with some dogs? Yes, but the vast majority of dogs that were gotten during the pandemic that have problems have absolutely nothing to do with the pandemic, have absolutely nothing to do with lack of, uh, exposure or socialization. Um, but anyway,

Speaker 3:

Yes. Now the, the first thing that I, that I look at when I have a dog that is reactive at the door. So you, you said that the dog is very friendly with all people, all animals, except for when somebody's at the door. So when I hear that, my first thought is, are we looking at actual aggression or is this just a reactivity problem? We actually have another caller, so we will get back to this question, but calls do take priority.

Speaker 2:

All right. We're gonna get back to Yvonne and her pandemic dog.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for calling Pet Talk today. Where are you calling from?

Speaker 5:

Oh, I'm calling from the,

Speaker 2:

All right. I'm from Milwaukee, so, uh, Gold Packers,

Speaker 6:

<laugh>. There we go.

Speaker 3:

So, so what's your question? How can we help you out?

Speaker 5:

Well, you know, I've thought about several times, um, and I'm bad cuz I never did it, but I have a dog that is a rescue dog originally, and I'm pretty good with, um, training, even remote training. Um, and I have a very obedient dog, but he's something different. He's sneaky aggressive. An example, I took him to the vet and very smart border col mix, you know, maybe rack terri in there and, um, you know, comes on command, very obedient like I said. But, you know, after he got in shot from the vet or the border tele, um, they're walking him out and he nipped her back leg. So he's kinda sneaky aggressive or very aggressive. Um, he's been known to, we've shored up some of that problem, but he broke out of the front door to go after, you know, people that are walking by with the dog. He's more dogs and people aggressive. I adopted him as six months old, but he, you dunno when he's going be aggressive and, you know, people have thought, Oh, I got scratch on the back leg. No, he, he bit somebody on the cap, not a hard bite or, you know, more than a stretch, but it's like he, he has to have the last word. I Have you ever heard of the dog that does things like

Speaker 2:

That? Well, yeah, and, and you know, you mentioned the dog wants the last word. Let me tell you what the dog really wants. It wants that individual to give it space. It wants distance and the dog is nervous. Yeah,

Speaker 5:

No, I'm, Your volume is down. Um, is that me or you?

Speaker 2:

Well, I don't know. Um, I can, that was better. I'll, I'll talk a little bit louder. Nobody's accused me of being client, but anyway, that's, There we go. Um, what I said was, is that, um, you know, with, uh, with your dog, it's not so much about trying to get the last word in as much as, Hey, the dog's nervous. The dog's afraid it wants distance and space Exactly. From that individual. And at that point, you know, it's, yeah, it's a sneak bite, but that even shows you how little confidence the dog actually has.

Speaker 3:

I think. I think it's a good, it's, that's a good time to interject and bring up threshold. Right. You know what, what's happening here and, uh, this is, you know, just a very well educated guess. I can't guarantee this is what's going on, but when you have a dog who is only biting people from behind, we have to look at what the dog's threshold is. So there's a certain point when something is causing anxiety that it becomes so overstimulating that your dog shuts down. So basically, even if they wanted to bite, even if they wanted to flee, even if they wanted to fight, whatever it was, fight or flight gets so intense that they just freeze and they do nothing, they shut down. But then as soon as that person turns around and goes to walk away, enough of the pressure is being relieved from your dog that they can now externalize what they're feeling internally because they're no longer as far over threshold. So like Will was saying, this is absolutely a indicator of just how little confidence

Speaker 2:

And, and let ask this,

Speaker 5:

Can I add something in here real quick? Sure. Yeah. Um, you know, I've watched a lot of you two people, um, you know, people have come to me, um, for help at times. I, I'm no expert, but I've had a few dogs, but he, he does things too that, that like in the front yard a couple times I've been talking to someone right behind me, but just, just before I got out there, he wouldn't have the front of their feet too mm-hmm.<affirmative> and was just walking by. They weren't even pressuring him.

Speaker 2:

Well, that you might not,

Speaker 5:

You might not

Speaker 2:

Taking him, You might not do it as

Speaker 5:

Pressure. I walks around like festivals and I put a muscle on him and you know, he be, be he behaves if I have it controlled and I'm right there, or I even muzzled or have control on. But as soon as he, he gets the chance or you give him a little freedom or I'm not there. And it seems like it makes a difference if I'm there or the husband's there. Um, he, he's more well behaved if I've got an eye on it and he knows he can't get away with that type of thing. But, you know, it, it's, you know, someone told me once that he's not bulletproof, but I I I get afraid that sometime, somewhere along the line he's gonna bite someone and I'm gonna be, you know,

Speaker 2:

Have you, what have you done trouble, What have you done when he's gone after somebody, when he's been aggressive or reactive? What have you done right in that moment? Well,

Speaker 5:

To tell the truth, um, you know, if I'm right there at the second, he usually doesn't do it around me.

Speaker 2:

All right. Well, I'm talking about when he does, I wanna know what happens when he does it. What do you do

Speaker 5:

When he does it? Yeah. It's usually you have to react instantly.

Speaker 2:

What do you do? What is,

Speaker 5:

I'm not there.

Speaker 2:

What behavior are you engaging in?

Speaker 5:

I would have to correct. I usually catch it before,

Speaker 2:

When you use

Speaker 5:

The word I don't let it happen.

Speaker 2:

You use the word Correct. So what does that mean? What does that involve?

Speaker 5:

Oh, I, I do have a, um, e power controller.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So let me talk about

Speaker 5:

One to hundred.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Let me talk about the electronic collar and let me talk about punishment for a second. Okay. And I'm not necessarily completely answering

Speaker 5:

And it's not the correct, I don't use the correction type. I use the vibration.

Speaker 2:

Sure. Use the vibration. But most of the dogs I know view the vibration as a bigger aversive than the low level electrical stimulation. Yeah. Here's the problem. You are creating the bitr because you've been suppressing your dog's behavior. You're not correcting the underlying problem, which is anxiety and fear. Your dog knows that in some cases, if it's gonna be aggressive or reactive, especially if it's wearing the e collar, that it's gonna get punished. It's gonna get corrected. And so therefore, you know, it suppresses the behavior. But what's the root cause of that behavior? What motivates that behavior is the fact that your dog is afraid of those triggers, whether it be people, other dogs. And when your dog has that fear, your dog has lots of ways to communicate that with canine body language. When you understand that even growling biggest mistake people make they correct a dog that growls, growling Absolutely. Tells you, Hey, back off. I'm not comfortable. Yeah,

Speaker 5:

No, I don't

Speaker 2:

Growling good. Because we get a lot of dogs that will never warn in just bite. But you know, one of the things that has to happen is you've got to work on counterconditioning, these desensitization. See,

Speaker 5:

He'll, the only part I have to worry about is when he checks off the front door and he's, it's hard to believe he's doing it outta fear. Cause he goes in attack somebody.

Speaker 3:

Well, here's the thing, the thing is this almost all aggression and

Speaker 5:

He almost never does it. If I'm there, it's like, it's the husband's there because you've

Speaker 2:

Been punishing him. You've been punish punishing him. He's not gonna do it here. He knows he's gonna get

Speaker 3:

Zapped. Right. And, and the thing is, almost all aggression occurs out of fear. Fear of something. Whether, whether we're looking at it from a literal standpoint, as in the dog is scared of

Speaker 2:

Well, tell me, tell me what animal, Tell me what animal goes into fight or flight Exactly. Without perceiving a threat.

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

And that's, and the biggest problem we have is we look at this outward behavior, aggression. Okay. And aggression is the acts, the behavior, the outward behavior. But what motivates that in emotional state. And that emotional state is anxiety. That emotional state is fear. Exactly. Again, no animal goes into fight or flight without perceiving something as threatening shape. Right. You've gotta do counterconditioning, you've gotta do desensitization, obedience training's not going to fix this problem. Punishment and corrections are not going to fix this problem. It will only suppress the behavior for a little bit. That behavior comes back out. It resurfaces normally. It's much worse. It

Speaker 5:

Can see he's starting right now. Right? Right now someone's walking. Right, Exactly. And now he's forgetting a little. Right.

Speaker 2:

So one of the things that you need to do, especially when you've got aggression, go, come

Speaker 7:

Right back and they'll

Speaker 2:

Be, find yourself. Go ahead and find yourself a, um, behavior consultant. Find yourself a certified behavior consultant. Um, get on the internet, do a Google search certified behavior consultant, and you need to, um, they're in Chicago, there's a bunch. You need to go ahead and consult with them and get some help. It's not an easy issue to fix. Um, if it were, then that e call would work, whether it be vibration or whatever. It would just, you know, completely eliminate the problem. It's not, it's a temporary bandaid and it really doesn't work. Anyway, appreciate the call. Um, yeah, that was a fantastic call. Um, all right. Do we have other questions in, uh, the comments? We absolutely. We

Speaker 3:

Have plenty. But we were answering that question Oh, yes. About Yvonne. Yvonne, about barking and jumping. And I was saying that whenever I have a dog that is, that is super, super friendly, and the only exception is when somebody's at the door, the first thing that I have to look at is, is this anxiety and aggression? Is the dog reacting this way out of anxiety and aggression? And if so, counterconditioning and desensitization is what is necessary here. But a lot of people will miss appropriately label aggression for what I just call bad puppy manners. Um,

Speaker 2:

And unruly, unruly behavior. My dog's barking and jumping on somebody. My dog's aggressive.

Speaker 3:

No, it's not. No, no, it's not. It's just a dog that,

Speaker 2:

Oh, best my dog's dominant. Right. Listen, I got news for you folks. Um, there's no conspiracy in the canine species world to take over the human species.

Speaker 3:

No, no. The the idea they're about dominance, dominance theory.

Speaker 2:

It's all about, it's all about mating. Yeah,

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

It's about, it's about mating. It's about sex.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly. And so here's the thing, when you have a dog that has these jumping, that has these jumping problems, Right?

Speaker 2:

Thanks Caesar<laugh>,

Speaker 3:

The first thing that you need to do,

Speaker 2:

Dominance. What a joke.

Speaker 3:

The first thing that you need to do is,

Speaker 2:

It's been disproved so many times.

Speaker 3:

No, absolutely, absolutely. Dominance theory. It's it, your dog is,

Speaker 2:

We still, I can't believe we still have to talk about

Speaker 3:

That. Your dog is not trying to walk all over you at all. Your dog is a social opportunist. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

You know what, like two year old kids, they're selfish. They're gonna do whatever the hell they want, whatever the hell they can get away with. Why not? And unless you're teaching'em otherwise, they're not dominant, they're unruly. They're without rules.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so when we're looking at a dog that doesn't have rules for that front door, the first thing that you need to implement is, do we need, we call the 10 minute rule. Okay. Right. And this is where, when you come through that front door for 10 minutes straight, your dog does not exist. The only exception is letting your dog outside. If you don't have a doggy door, other than that, you do not say their name. You do not look at them. You do not pet them. You do not interact with them. You do not give, give them treats, nothing. Your dog doesn't exist, period. And everybody coming through that door needs to do the exact same thing. This is going to teach them that those first 10 minutes are not exciting. They're not this big event. They're not this thing that, uh, is, is, you know, is gonna hype them up. And then by the time they do get that interaction, they're over that initial excitement. They're over the initial excitement of the dog, of people coming through that front door. Then after that, once you've started implementing that, when you're home and strangers are coming in, we have to start giving our dogs a different task. Tell your dog to sit, make your dog lay down. Send your dog to a place co, whatever it is, that is a incompatible behavior. You see, your dog cannot be jumping up, greeting, barking at your guests when they come through the front door. If they're committed to staying in a sit, if they're committed to staying in a down or if they're committed to staying on a place cot. So now that you're inside and people are coming in, you make your dogs stay in one of these positions and reward them for that. Now, we have taken away the value of people coming through the front door by implementing that 10 minute rule. And we have now added value to an alternative incompatible behavior. And as a result, we will cause that behavioral change in our dogs very, very quickly. If you start implementing these two easy steps, you will see your dogs and their jumping behavior in the way that they greet People change very quickly. Now, the caveat here is if you have a dog that is actually anxious and aggressive towards people coming through the door, it's a much different process. So that's where understanding your dog's body language comes in and figuring out, is this an unruly behavior or is this an anxiety related

Speaker 2:

Behavior? And that's the way that dogs communicate. You know, they don't talk to us. They, they communicate through their body language. Right? And if you don't understand canine body language, and you've got a dog that's got aggression issues, fear issues, anxiety, you're gonna really struggle to be able to help them. Uh, understanding in depth canine body language is critical. I can't tell you how many, uh, behavior consultants and dog trainers do counter conditioning and desensitization wrong. Um, and you'd wonder, do you even know how to read canine body language? Um, they're shoving food down the dog's mouth when it's exposed to a trigger, and the dog is showing stress signals that indicates the dog is over threshold, internally, emotionally. Now, will you make progress? Yeah, you might, but it's gonna be a whole lot slower, and you're risking a lot of confusion with that, I'm Will Bangura, and

Speaker 3:

I'm Jordan Mar

Speaker 2:

Steller, and you're watching Pet Talk today here on Facebook Live. Um, do us a favor, hit that like button so more people can benefit from this show. Show us some love. Hit that like button. Also hit that share button so more people, uh, can see and benefit from this, uh, information. If you've got a question about your dog's training, if you've got a question about your dog's behavior, do us a favor. Go ahead and type your question in the comment section and also let us know where you're watching from and, and also what kind of pets that you have. Um, and we'll answer your questions if you'll put it in the comment section. Also, you can give us a call, calls take priority. Um, the number to call Jordan, what's our phone number?

Speaker 3:

(602) 525-6880.

Speaker 2:

That's 6 0 2 5 2 5 6 8 8 0. Do we have any questions? Absolutely lined up and

Speaker 3:

Oh, we have plenty of

Speaker 2:

Questions. All right. Let's, let's start going through and try to, I know it's tough. You know, folks, the challenges when we've got such a short period of time and there are no quick fixes, is that we can't, we gotta condense everything we tell you. Um, and there might be pieces that are missing. Um, so, you know, if you're really dealing with a serious problem, get some help. If you're in Arizona, go to Phoenix dog training.com. If you're outside of Arizona, go ahead and, uh, go to dog behaviorist.com. Looks like we got a caller.

Speaker 3:

Looks like we do have a caller. Thanks for calling. Pet Talk to you. Are you calling from? Hello?

Speaker 8:

Uh, I'm calling from, uh, Lexington, an hour drive from Boston, Massachusetts. Okay. How are you guys?

Speaker 3:

I'm

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. We're doing good. So how do you go car<laugh>? How do you get there? Car?

Speaker 8:

Exactly, exactly. You got it. So

Speaker 2:

Tell me,

Speaker 8:

He's mys dog and they're from Arizona. They're here. Didn't you turn it? Exactly. I was thinking like you guys at the right place. So, uh, I'm calling, uh, he to be a lot and doesn't bark. Just when he's, he's always with my walk. Just, just like he's the, sometimes he

Speaker 3:

There's something that we like to call cocker rage.

Speaker 2:

Cocker rage is

Speaker 3:

Cocker rage. It's, it's actually very, very common now. So what I'm hearing here

Speaker 2:

Is, and a lot of'em have seizures.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Um, and so how, how old is he? How old has the dog?

Speaker 8:

He's the one and a half. One

Speaker 3:

And a half, okay. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And how long, how long has this behavior been occurring?

Speaker 8:

Um, I think, uh, he's been visiting for just a little over two weeks now. But I think it's my was it's for, he'd be a the, and

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So what we have here is a very, very easy to identify case of resource guarding in area. So your

Speaker 2:

Dog, which again, which again, let me just say is the root of that is anxiety. Absolutely. And fear. Fear, Absolutely. Space fear of losing a resource. Exactly. Um, and, and so again, uh, we need to take a look at, when we look at actionable behavior, what's the underlying emotional state?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

That motivates that behavior. And it's that underlying emotional state that we have to modify. And when we do that, we'll have permanence of change with the actionable behavior. Exactly. Um, but if we're just correcting behavior and corrections, just a politically correct word for punishment, Right. Something that uses fear, pain, or intimidation to a lesser or greater degree. Okay. I'm not a hundred percent anti punishment. Um, but that should be the last resort. And you need to know what you're doing. It needs to be done very humanely. And you need to be training using positive reinforcement, counter conditioning desensitization. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, uh, first, And there's no quick fixes for this. And when we've got a dog like this cocker spaniel, who it's a genetic issue, most likely Okay. As a component to that. But what I would recommend first and foremost is you need to consult, he needs to consult with the veterinary behaviorist. Okay. Okay? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, because this could be cocker rage, we're not veterinarians. And there may be, uh, underlying medical condition. Yeah. Not necessarily the total cause, but a contributing factor. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, because again, cocker rage is pretty normal stuff. Um, Okay. When it comes to the cockers span. So, um, get online, do a search for veteran behaviorist and get an appointment. And, and I would start with that first, okay? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Um, but that's where you need, that's where you need to start. But anyway, appreciate the call. Um, yeah, that was a good call. And we haven't talked about cocker rage. You know, we should do a segment sometime on, on, on cocker rage.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. That's definitely not the worst idea.

Speaker 2:

You know, we won't spend a lot of time cause not everybody's got a question.

Speaker 3:

We have, uh, we have a, we have another question from Lori from Bloomington,

Speaker 2:

Illinois. Bloomington, Illinois. All right. She says,

Speaker 3:

Bears, My dog hates squirrels. She has hurt me many times by taking off after them and dragging me. I thought I had her trained to ignore when commanded. But she has reverted back to again, she is a labard, 50% chocolate lab, 50% St. Bernard. She has also reacted well. Haven't you ever seen, um, Oh my gosh. The movie, the name of the movie, just so, just blew outta my mind. The main,

Speaker 2:

You know, they're coming out with a nasal spray Yeah. That helps people with Alzheimer's. I'm really excited about this. I've been reading about the clinical, uh, the clinical trials that they got going on. Right.

Speaker 3:

Okay. Listen, listen. Early onset, I'm a little, I'm a little young for that. I don't, I don't, I don't think, I think I might be the first documented case of somebody in their twenties

Speaker 2:

Pre, pre caffeine. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Right. I'm not,

Speaker 2:

You know, I've been underserved here. Well,

Speaker 3:

Um, now, uh, so she's reverted back. She is at 50% chocolate lap, 50% St. Bernard. She's also reactive to other dogs if they bark at her only on leash at the dog park when she's off leash, she doesn't respond like that. I'm really exhausted trying to train her. I've had her since eight weeks old and she is now five. Well, here's the first thing. Um, it sounds to me like there's two potential sources here of what's causing what's going on. The first thing we may be looking at, and I know that we say this a lot, and anxiety, underlying anxiety problem because

Speaker 2:

Behavior problems are rooted in anxiety.

Speaker 3:

She is reactive to other dogs. And she, in your words, hates squirrels. Um, but then you tell me

Speaker 2:

That it only happens loves adrenaline. Right.

Speaker 3:

Then you tell me that it only happens when she's on leash because if she's off leash and she's at the dog park, she plays just fine with other dogs. So maybe it's not necessarily an anxiety problem towards other dogs, or,

Speaker 2:

Well, frustration could be a lot of frustration being at the end of that leash, not being able to, you know, move around and have access to what it

Speaker 3:

Wants. I think this is a leash reactivity problem. And a barrier, frustration or confinement, frustration problem.

Speaker 2:

Just, you know, being restrained.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. There we go. That's the word I'm looking for. Restrain meant,

Speaker 2:

Which, which, when, when a dog is restrained and there's a squirrel, the drive just builds. They've got all kinds of prey drive. Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

Especially, it's a

Speaker 2:

Lab. And, and listen, it's, the squirrel is not the reward that chase is the reward cuz they rarely ever get the squirrel. And here's the thing, if you know anything about behavior modification, if you know anything about, um, operating conditioning with that poor rate of reinforcement, that behavior should extinguish. Therefore we know that the squirrel is not the reinforc or the reinforcement is the chase.

Speaker 3:

Right. And so now was it last week or the week prior that we did loose leash walking?

Speaker 2:

It was so must have been last. Was it last week?

Speaker 3:

I, I'm not certain. Well, all

Speaker 2:

Because we were talk, it was either last, either the last episode or the one

Speaker 3:

Before. Yeah. We talked

Speaker 2:

About

Speaker 3:

That full episode on loose leash

Speaker 2:

Walking and leash reactivity.

Speaker 3:

And so I highly recommend, uh, Lori, that you go back to our videos, excuse me. And find the one titled Loose Leash Walking, Loose re leash reactivity, something along those lines. There's gonna be leash reactivity in the title. You can

Speaker 2:

Either go on this page, the Facebook page, and kind of scroll down in the videos. Um, the only only thing is I think it talks about loose leash walking. Yeah. But you can also go to the Pet Talk Today podcast. Exactly. And those of you that do subscribe, or if you go to the Pet Talk Today podcast, do us a favor, give us a five star review that helps with the rankings and more people get to see it. Yeah. I'm Will Bangura. And

Speaker 3:

I'm Jordan Mar Steller.

Speaker 2:

And you've been watching Pit Talk today here on Facebook Live. We're here to answer your questions, take your calls, help you with your dog's training and behavior issues. If you've got a problem with your dog, go ahead and type your question in the comment section. Let us know where you're watching from, what kind of dog you have. Do us a favor, smash that like button. Also share this to your page so more people can benefit. Let's take another

Speaker 3:

Question. Yeah, absolutely. Um, let's see, let's see. Melissa from Iowa has an Armenian gapper who is three years old. He's a livestock guardian breed. He's 170 pounds, most beautiful walker ever. When in the yard he's a guard dog barker. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, it is his breed and instincts to bark at the parameter to ward off predators. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I am okay with that. But now we are in the phase of, you know, that's the neighbor. So hush it. Interesting. We are working on the go. And look, if there is no wild animal, we say no bark. Come. Then if he does, he gets his praise and special treat. Yes. It is starting to work now. Now comes the, let's, Oh my goodness, this is a lot. Um, now comes the, let's go on a walk. And now another dog is walking. And then here comes the wild. Ah, here we go. Now we're getting to it. So when this dog sees another dog, uh, the wild rabid dog comes out. We know he can learn fast as this is the first lesson taught. But people get scared and we are focusing on him to sit and just hush and quit and help. Here's the thing. This is another case of leash reactivity.

Speaker 2:

It's another case though. The dog over threshold. Yeah. And you want the dog to sit and be calm and you're way too close to the trigger for that to happen. You're, you're, I'm sure you're struggling with your dog if you're doing that. And, um, talk about threshold, talk about distance and space and counter conditioning. Just go briefly through that process. And I want everybody to listen because what Jordan's gonna talk about this process of counter conditioning and desensitization. This is used for any kind of anxiety, any kind of fear, any kind of phobia. Any kind of aggression.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. Now here's the thing, the first thing that you have to ask yourself is what is the desired behavior? And the desired behavior here is that my dog is calm, not barking, not reacting, not growling, not lunging, not pooling, not anything. Just aloof. Not a care in the world,

Speaker 2:

In emotional state. That is aloof. Not a care Exactly.

Speaker 3:

World. Exactly. So all of that, what I'm describing is an emotional state. Aloof not a care in the

Speaker 2:

World, not aloof, uh,

Speaker 3:

Now<laugh>. That's right. And so, um, when we now know that that's the desired behavior, the desired state that we want our dog to be in, we have to create that environment for our dogs that we can reinforce that emotional state. So if at any point during your training, your dog is not aloof, your dog has anything more than a care in the world, you are too close, too intense, too quickly. So what that means is if your problem is strangers, if your problem is strange, dogs, if your problem is squirrels, if your problem is cats, if your problem is cars, if your problem is children on skateboards that are wearing helmets, but not elbow pads. I know that seems interesting, but dogs are very contact specific.

Speaker 2:

If your dog protects guards and will fight to the death over a piece of fuzz.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. Over a piece of

Speaker 2:

Fuzz, piece of

Speaker 3:

Fuzz, a piece of fuzz. It goes like this, it happens. You need to make sure that you have turned down the intensity of the trigger. Whether that is creating more distance. And when I say more distance, I've had a dog that I've had to go more than 150 feet. I measured it away from the dog before they stopped

Speaker 2:

Reacting. You know, it could be that the trigger is so far away, it's just this little, little tiny thing. You know how when you're up in an airplane and you look down and everybody looks like an ant, it could be that small and your dog could be reactive. Hey, every dog's different. Every dog has what I call a circumference of comfort. Exactly. Okay. And at some point that trigger gets close enough to'em and emotionally they start getting uncomfortable. Remember? Exactly. We need them at a distance where they don't have a care in the world. If you don't understand canine body language, if you are not an expert, if you are not fluent in canine body language, you will not know what your dog's emotional state is. Exactly. You will be fooled. You'll think your dog is relaxed. Just because your dog is not showing actionable behavior does not mean that your dog's underlying emotional states. Okay. That's what needs to change. Exactly. The behavior will change when the emotional state changes.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. So now, now that we've gotten our dog whatever distance away from the trigger, whether that's 20 feet, whether that's 50, whether that's a hundred feet, whether that's 150 feet, does not matter what the distance is. As long as your dog's emotional state is aloof, that is where we start trigger turns on by coming into sight. If it's an auditory trigger by playing that noise or the noise starts, if it's, you know, whatever the trigger is, we get it to start. We have the dog be aware of its presence. Awareness is not the same as your dog reacting. If your dog can see it, if your dog can hear it, they are aware that it is there. Okay? And as soon as that occurs, you start feeding and you pair that trigger being turned on with high value food. Then you turn the trigger off, have them step outta sight, have them, uh, have walk your dog back around a corner, something like that, and you stop feeding. As soon as that trigger turns off, then you bring'em back out and feed, feed, feed, feed, feed, feed, feed, feed, feed. Then take'em back around the corner and you stop feeding. And that's where you start. This is teaching them that when they see the trigger at a distance, that they are not reacting. Lots of high value stuff and yummy things are gonna go in their mouth. And eventually you get a little bit closer, you get a little bit more intense and a little bit closer and a little bit more intense. And it just keeps going and going and going and going until you get to that point that your dog is not reacting. And we're 10 feet away from the trigger. But this can take months and months of practicing and repetition and making sure, most importantly, that you are keeping your dog under threshold. Does that make sense? Now, um, and this, this applies for everything. It doesn't matter what the trigger is. If your dog is displaying anxiety, aggression, reactivity for whatever reason, whether it's because he feels like he has to protect you or he feels like he's protecting his food or he feels like he's just scared of that animal's presence or that person's presence, whatever it is, this is the process. You have to start out at such a distance that he is not reacting, that his emotional state is

Speaker 2:

Calm. I want you to look through the questions and see if we have something that is very different. Okay? Cause we've been talking a lot about counterconditioning and desensitization, but folks, let me give you a task. Let me give you a little bit of homework. Jot this down. Listen. Um, Halloween is right around the corner. Trick or treat dogs, um, are very reactive. The doorbells ringing constantly. The door is knocking constantly. Uh, little ghost and ghouls and golans and scary masks right at the dog's eye level are coming towards the house, maybe coming towards them. Um, the kids are screaming, making loud noises. They sound like wounded prey. They get dogs nervous, very scared. And dog can become very reactive. Start teaching your dog, desensitize your dog to door knocking, desensitize your dog to the doorbell ringing. Okay? Um, you might need to get recordings of that and start playing that very, very low where your dog really doesn't care about it. And again, you're gonna play that sound. Knock, knock, knock, knock, knock or play that sound. Ding do, ding don ding. Do. And while that sound is happening, feed, feed, feed, feed, feed constantly and continuously for about five seconds, then stop the sound, stop feeding. Immediately what we're doing is we're pairing high value food wards, something very positive with the trigger that the dog doesn't like, but we've got it so low that the dog's below threshold. What does that mean? The dog hears it, knows it's there, but doesn't have a cure in the world. How do we know if it doesn't have a care in the world? We know that by understanding in depth canine body language is the only way to know that.

Speaker 3:

Yep. Now we have a question. Uh, Tori from Lafayette, Louisiana. Oh, those my old stomping grounds. I used to live in, uh, Fort Polk used to spend my days over there in Alexandria. I used

Speaker 2:

To party in the French Quarter.

Speaker 3:

<laugh>. There we go. You know, I've never been to Kns. I think I said that right. Oh. But anyways, so Tori from Lafayette, my puppy six month old pit bull mix nibbles, when he gets super playful and I always grab a toy, but he can't get enough of the nibbles. Okay? So you're already going in the right direction. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Okay? The first thing that you're gonna do is redirect. Okay? You're going to give your dog something else. He wants to nibble on you. He wants to chew on something, trade it, give him something he's allowed to chew on. And you gotta make sure you do this 100% of the time every single time. Be consistent. Now, if you've been doing this for, you know, like two weeks and you just, it is not working, you're not seeing any improvement

Speaker 2:

Also, before we go there, I know where you're going with it. How about tell them how to, uh, train. Leave it.

Speaker 3:

Ah, there we go. That's a

Speaker 2:

Good idea. All right. Because again, that would be teaching the dog something other than having to punish and correct. Right?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Well, no. And you see, well, I guess technically what I was going to suggest would be punishment with the crate. Um,

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's just negative punishment that's all. Now taking away the freedom that the dog wants.

Speaker 3:

So now here's the thing. What you're going to do is we want to teach our dog to leave things alone. The first thing that you have to teach a dog when it comes to leaving stuff is you gotta teach'em to drop things. Right? That's the first step. Teach'em what taking things outta their mouth means and why it's valuable.

Speaker 2:

And I consider that so close to nibbling, like as if they had something in their mouth. I, I'll use drop. Leave

Speaker 3:

It. Yeah, exactly. So what you do is you're going to get a, get a treat pouch or a bag full of

Speaker 2:

Treats. High value. We're not talking about buying the store bought and treats. Okay. What we're talking about is something really valuable. Cooked chicken cooked steak, very, very tiny pieces about the size of a p is what you wanna be working with and have a lot of them. A

Speaker 3:

Lot of them. Exactly. Then you're just gonna take a small handful, about four or five pieces maximum, and you're gonna say, drop it and drop a handful of treats onto the ground. And then as soon as they finish scavenging, you want it to kind of spread around a little bit. So they have to scavenge. You don't wanna place it on the ground, actually drop it so that it spreads out. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And they have to scavenge around for it. As soon as they eat that very last piece, you say it again, drop it and drop another handful. Let'em scavenge around and pick those up. Then guess what? Drop it and throw it on the ground.

Speaker 2:

How many times should they do that in a row?

Speaker 3:

About 30 times

Speaker 2:

In a row. And and how often should they do

Speaker 3:

That? I recommend once or twice a day to begin.

Speaker 2:

For how long? For

Speaker 3:

At least four days. I want you to do this once or twice a day. 30 times in a row. So

Speaker 2:

We can't ask the dog to drop it or leave it until we've conditioned the dog to have a actionable behavior. Exactly. When the dog hears that cue.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. Now, so

Speaker 2:

What is the dog doing when it hear, you know, if we've done this over and over and over, what happens is, what happens when we say drop it or leave

Speaker 3:

It? You drop it, Your dog goes, Oh, there's food on the ground and he looks at the ground. Right? But now let's imagine he has something in his mouth. He can't pick up these treats if he has something in his mouth. Right? So you give him something he's allowed to have mm-hmm.<affirmative>, whatever it is, make sure it's something he's allowed to have. And you're gonna say, drop it and throw food on the ground. He's gonna look at the food, spit out the toy and scavenge around for food. Now here's the important part. You let him take that toy back. You do not take the toy from him because you will very quickly poison the cue.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. If he realizes, gosh, you tell me, you know, drop it or come and you know, I lose something. I want, what, what's the benefit of me Exactly.

Speaker 3:

Doing

Speaker 2:

That

Speaker 3:

Behavior. Exactly. So now you have a dog that can drop it on queue and will go back to their toy. So now they hear, Oh man, mom's just gonna give me free food and I, and I get to take the toy back too. Then one day your dog has something in their mouth that they're not supposed to have. I e you

Speaker 2:

Nibbling. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I say drop it and I throw food on the ground and my dog stops biting me or stops chi, whatever it is that, that they're not supposed to have. And they're gonna look at the food on the ground. And now I take that item away cuz they weren't supposed to have it. And now we have taught our dog value behind the word. Drop it, leave it, whatever you want the word to be, banana doesn't matter. And our dog is leaving it alone. That's another option. If your dog just, you've been doing this, you've taught your dog to drop it, you've redirected your dog by trading and this still isn't working, your dog just isn't getting it is still nibbling on you. Now this is where you're playing with your dog. You're having fun with your dog, and your dog starts nibbling on you, stop playing with your dog immediately stop interacting, stand up and walk away.

Speaker 2:

Walk away, turn around. Exactly.

Speaker 3:

Walk away. And you're just gonna do this very quickly. Just a couple of seconds, you know, five to 10 seconds, and then turn back around. As long as your dog is not badgering you for attention. And then you'll interact with your dog and play with them again. And as soon as that nibbling starts, you stand up, take your hands away, turn your back on'em, walk away, and you'll do that. Now let's say you've been doing that for a week or two and we still aren't seeing improvement. Okay? So next you're gonna be playing with your dog. Your dog starts nibbling, boom. Straight to the kennel. Two minute time out, two minutes, minimum two minutes. If your dog is whining and barking and crying in the kennel, you don't let'em out

Speaker 2:

Them ignore that.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. Ignore it. Even if it gets that two minutes and it, and they're still barking and whining. Oh, well they gotta stay in there. They gotta wait it out. Yeah. Then here's the important part. You let them out of the kennel and you go right back to what you were doing before they got put in the kennel. So if you were playing with them, go back to playing with them. And as soon as, as that nibbling behavior happens again, boom, put'em right up immediately straight to the kennel. Do not pass. Go. Do not collect$200 straight to the kennel. Two minute timeout. You

Speaker 2:

Gotta think about the ABCs folks. Okay. Antecedence behavior and consequences. So antecedence is what happens right before the behavior. Okay. What is motivating? What is the trigger? Hey, maybe you're moving your hands around real fast and you know, it's fun and, and you know, dogs wanna get things in their mouth and they start nibbling on you. Okay. Antecedent. That's what happens before behavior. Dog starts nibbling consequence dog immediately gets put into the crate.

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Um, if your timing's really good and there's repetition and you're consistent, the dog's gonna realize, Hey, I'm losing some freedom. I don't like that. And that's happening every time I do that nibbling thing. Maybe I shouldn't do that nibbling thing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

How about that? Exactly. Now when you're doing the behavior, okay, ABCs and the dog does not nibble, there needs to be a different kind of consequence. You need to be rewarding the fact that your dog is not nibbling. We're so good at saying no, We're so good at correcting. We're so good at focusing on what we don't want and we're so bad about capturing and rewarding the good behavior. Dogs learn by repetition and conditioning and a motivator. Positive reinforcement, food rewards, great motivator. All right. Do we have other questions?

Speaker 3:

Um, yeah, actually this is a quick one from Kim. Kim says, potty training question, the poodle was taking outside, was going pee outside, but when brought back in the house would still pee again.

Speaker 2:

All right, let me take this one. I love this question. Okay. Um, so some dogs, when they go outside, they don't empty their bladder in one lift. I'm gonna get this in here. One lift or a squat. They don't necessarily empty their bladder. Um, some dogs, when they have a bowel movement, they don't just have one bowel movement. Yeah. They might be a double triple dumper. Yep. So here's the thing, if when you take your dog outside, you come back in and very soon after you come back in, your dog's going to the bathroom again, your dog was not done. You need to keep your dog out there longer. You need to wait it out a little bit because your dog is showing you that, Hey, I don't empty my bladder when I'm out there. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Speaker 3:

And you know what's interesting like about that? He is so right. Harley, my dog. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I call her a two one one and done<laugh> because she goes outside and this happens every time without fail. And if I do not let her do one of these things, I will come back to an accident. She will urinate twice, then she will poop, then she will urinate again, and then she's done. Yeah. And it happens every single morning. Every morning. And if I, and if, if she takes her two urination and she's just taking forever to go, you know, actually poop, uh, and maybe I get a little impatient and I take her back inside. I promise you, 100% of the time I come home to an accident, it happens every time without fail because that's just how she does it. So you have to pay attention to your dogs.

Speaker 2:

What's the pattern?

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

What is that pattern? Okay. Um, and you know, if you're outside and your dog doesn't complete the pattern, so to speak, and you're like, I know the dog. Soon as I bring it in, it's gonna go to the bathroom in there.

Speaker 3:

<laugh>,

Speaker 2:

Put the dog in the crate for 15 minutes, get the dog back outside, Um, see if the dog will finish. Dog, you've been out there for five, 10 minutes, the dog's still not finishing. Go back in. Now here's the, if you think the dog's really gotta go. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Put

Speaker 2:

The dog back in the crate. Exactly. 15 minutes and get the dog back.

Speaker 3:

And here's the important part. When you're taking your dog outside, ignore them. Just stand there. There are on leash and you are just standing there. The reason they're on leash is because you don't want to give them the ability to go out and explore and start getting into that scavenging drive, whatever you wanna call that. But

Speaker 2:

Keep the leash loose. Protection drive, move with them, Let them sniff. Let them find their spot.

Speaker 3:

And you don't interact with them. Yeah. Don't interact with them at all, because it's gonna distract them. I do it. I, I a lot of people think that reaffirming for your dog to go to the bathroom helps. The only way that helps is if you have a really good pre-conditioned queue.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So if you, if you've been training your dog to go to the bathroom on command, that's the only time that trying to tell.

Speaker 2:

And, and trust me, those of you that think your dog is trained to go on command, it's coincidence. Most of you do not have your dog trained to go on command. Okay. Yeah. Um, it's coincidence for

Speaker 3:

Most of you. Yeah. And, and believe,

Speaker 2:

If you think you've got your dog trained to go to the bathroom on command, load up the dog in the car. Yep. All right. And go to, I don't know, drive to a, a different place where the dog's never been. Okay. And when the dog comes out, you know that they're gonna mark, usually if it's a female or a male, they're not gonna empty themselves completely. So even if they get outta the car and they go, then tell'em to go to the bathroom again.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. All

Speaker 2:

Right. They're gonna be so interested in everything else that's going around. You

Speaker 3:

Know, Will, interestingly, when I was in the army, I had a dog named Bob. Yeah. And Bob, for whatever reason, developed this fantastic habit of, instead of deploying a passive response of a sit or a down, when he found odor Mm. He would defecate, he got so excited that he would defecate right on top of odor. Mm. And then he would respond. And one day my kennel master looked at me and he said, he said, Marc stellar if your dog poops in my training lane one more time. And now these aren't the exact words that he used. Yeah. But he said, If your dog poops in my training lane, one more time, I'm gonna smoke the poop outta you. Mm.

Speaker 2:

And I would say, Sorry, you know, the dog's so excited about getting a fine, you know, he just himself. Exactly.

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. Wash out, out.

Speaker 3:

And so now I was then on a mission. Yeah. I was on a mission to train my dog to defecate on command. Oh, that's

Speaker 2:

Easy.

Speaker 3:

Nobody, nobody believed me that I actually accomplished it until one day I told my kennel master, I was just talking to him. Those, he goes, he goes, Hey Marcella, how did you, how'd you fix this? And I was like, Oh, I trained him to poop on command. He goes, No, you didn't. Yeah. I was like, Yeah, I did. He said, Okay, go pull your dog out right now and make him go poop. And

Speaker 2:

I said, Bill Clinton<laugh>. That was its cue

Speaker 3:

Actually. It was take. But, you know,<laugh>. So, um, I went out to the kennel. I took Bob out. Yeah. And I went, I did. I went, I was like, take. And he did right there. Defecated. Yeah. And my kettle master was like, Good

Speaker 2:

Job. It's easy to teach a dog to go to the bathroom on command. Anybody that has, um, competed with a dog in the show ring. Absolutely. Um, whether it be confirmation, whether it be obedience, uh, whether it be protection, sports, um, you know, defecating in the ring, that's not a good thing. Yeah. No,

Speaker 3:

No. And

Speaker 2:

You know, we know how to teach. We know how to teach our dogs, um, poop. I was just gonna say, there's a landmine. There's a landmine.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Pooping in the ring might not be very good, but I, I have a feeling my dogs have, It might have been a little bit more concerning<laugh>. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Do we have another question? We've got about, uh, six minutes. Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. So we have a, um, let's see. I did see a question, but of course a new question. A new comment came in, which scrolled me down. Okay, so this is Robert from Nebraska. They adopted a mixed breed two, two months ago. She's about 40 pounds now. And so Good. In many ways, the issues we have is chewing up up stuff, toys and beds, not destructive in the house. And she will growl. That sounds a little destructive to me. She will growl a little or bark at certain people. It's not all the time by any means. But today, for example, a won approached us and Nova barked and growled a little. But once the lady gave her pets and attention, she was fine and her sweet self we're almost done. Then another family walked towards us and she was completely fine. She will bark when someone comes to the door, but once we show her it's fine. She is fine. So to clarify, Nova was fine. Once the lady got closer and gave her love, another family came by us, and Nova was totally fine. Well, first things first, like I said earlier in the show, dogs are very context specific. Okay? So there, there's something about that woman as she was approaching that characteristically was triggering her fight or flight is not a decision. We do not decide to be uncomfortable with things. Fight or flight is a subconscious neurochemical reaction to an external stimuli. Okay? So what's happening is your dog sees this trigger, whatever the stimulus is, and then subconsciously their brain starts firing off cortisol, neuro epinephrine, and other neurochemicals, which then

Speaker 2:

Physiological

Speaker 3:

Responses. Yeah, exactly. Which then and cortisols are stress hormone. And what happens when high levels of cortisol start entering your brain or leaving your brain and going into your bloodstream, your prefrontal cortex turns off and your amygdala turns on and it takes over all functioning, not all functioning, but it takes over. So your dog is no longer making rationalized decisions. It is no longer able to do future planning. Executive functioning, which occurs in the prefrontal cortex, turns off, digestion, turns off. And the only thing that is on your dog's brain is survival, fight or flight. Those are the only options. That's why your dog can be seemingly out of it. And it's like you don't even recognize your dog. And then suddenly they snap out of it and it's like back to being a normal dog because they weren't them normal, their normal selves. So the thing is this, it sounds to me because I hear, I hear a lot of destructive chewing, even though it's specific items, destructive chewing is normally an anxiety response and I'm seeing what seems like a generalized anxiety about certain strangers. It sounds to me like your dog has something going on underneath of the surface that requires, like I had been speaking about earlier in the show, so much counter conditioning and desensitization. Yeah. Sounds like we might be looking at a separation anxiety issue here, which is why the chewing might be occurring. Unless it's, unless it doesn't happen when you're gone, then that's an entirely different problem. And we need to teach our dog loose leash walking and a good, reliable sit and or down so that we can counter condition and desensitize to strangers in the exact way that we always talk about. Trigger turns on food, turns on trigger turns off food, turns off all the while making sure your dog is under threshold.

Speaker 2:

And you know, last week I had talked about a study that I read where shelter dogs that had fears, anxieties, phobias, aggression, um, they did counterconditioning and desensitization and they had like an 86% success rate. Um,

Speaker 3:

72,

Speaker 2:

They

Speaker 3:

Equate

Speaker 2:

Where did they get that point? Uh, decreased frequency, decreased, uh, intensity, better recovery. So, um, 72 counterconditioning in desensitization sessions over 96 days is what produced it. Yeah. So again, this is not an overnight fix folks. No. 72 counter conditioning and desensitization exercises over a period of 96 days, um, is what they found was where that general,

Speaker 3:

So that means out of a little over three months. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, we only missed out on approximately 24 days. That to me sounds like minimum three to five times per week. I don't know about you will, three to five times per week is what you need to be aiming

Speaker 2:

For. Yeah. Three to five times a week. The, the sessions for Counterconditioning and desensitization are only going to be, uh, you know, five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes is a very, very long session. Very long session indeed. Well, it's been a really good show. Um, and you know that sound folks, that means that we are just about out of time. I'm Will Bangura. And I'm Jordan Martel and you've been watching Pet Talk today here on Facebook Live. Do us a favor, hit that like button, hit that share button. Be sure to join us next week where we continue to help you with your dog's behavior, your training issues. Oh folks, have a good weekend. Train your dogs.