# 114 The Dog Daddy Controversy Why It's So Dangerous. Email from Lenora and Sigmund: Dog Training with Will Bangura, M.S., CDBC, CBCC-KA, CPDT-KA, FFCP

Just when you thought you knew your pet well, it turns out they can be your best adviser when it comes to your relationships. Tune into Pet Talk Today, as I, your host Will Bangura, share intriguing insights into how Lenora's Yorkie, Sigmund, might be trying to warn her about her new boyfriend. Journey with us as we delve into the complex dynamics between pets and their humans. In our conversation, we also blow the whistle on Augusto de Oliveira, aka the 'Dog Daddy.' We break down why his methods are not just dangerous but possibly border on animal cruelty.

Hang in there with us as we tackle the controversy surrounding The Dog Daddy,  dog training methods. We bring light to the voices of experts from reputable organizations like the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior, the American Animal Hospital Association, and the Association of Professional Dog Trainers, that condemn the use of punishment in training. We take you through why this could do more harm than good, causing long-term psychological effects on your beloved pets. We also caution you on "quick-fix" training methods and emphasize the importance of patience in teaching our furry friends. This episode promises to be an eye-opener for all pet parents, making you rethink how we treat our canine companions. Dog Training with Will Bangura, M.S., CDBC, CBCC-KA, CPDT-KA, FFCP Visit the Pet Talk Today Website DOG TRAINING PODCAST

Chapters

• 0:00 Pet Talk Today
• 10:33 The Controversy Surrounding Dog Training Methods
• 21:15 Patience in Dog Training Importance

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everybody, it's Will Bangro with Pet Talk Today. I want to thank all of you listeners for your continued support. I need a huge favor. Would you please hit pause in just a second? Whatever platform you're listening to this podcast, if you love what we do, would you please give us a five star review? Giving a five star review is the best way you can say thank you, because that allows our rankings to go higher and that means that more people can benefit from the information that we're teaching and sharing on Pet Talk Today. I don't want to take up any more of your time. I want to get into that show, but please, if you love what we do, please give us a review. Thank you, oh yeah, so I get this email from Lenora in Yakima, washington, and this is how the email goes. It says about 10 years ago, I lost my husband to cancer. Shortly after my husband's passing, I rescued the cutest little three year old male Yorkie named Sigmund. The problem I'm having is that after a decade of being single, now I'm starting to date and there's a fellow I really like, but I can't have him over to the house because Sigmund absolutely hates him and wants to kill him. I don't understand this at all, because Sigmund loves absolutely everybody. Can you help me? Am I ever going to have a social life again? Well, lenora, how do I put this? This might not be a training issue, as much as this might be an issue of your guy's character. I mean, if what you tell me is true, if your dog loves everyone but hates your guy, well, it might want to listen to your dog because Sigmund might be trying to give you some really really good advice. So I guess, as far as my advice goes, as far as what I would tell you to do in this particular situation, I would have to say it's time to re-home the boyfriend and kick this guy to the curb. Hey everybody, I'm Will Bangura. Happy Tuesday, september 12th.

Speaker 1: 2:30

I wanted to take a quick second to talk out and give a statement about Augusto de Oliveira, aka the dog daddy. I'm sure that you've heard about it. If you hang out on social media and you're into dogs, then you've seen some videos with the dog daddy. The dog daddy and what he's doing is extremely dangerous and, in my opinion, it is animal cruelty. One of the techniques that he uses is called flooding. Flooding is when you just completely immerse the individual into the thing that they don't like. So let's say that you had a fear of snakes. Well, we would have a huge swimming pool full of snakes and we would throw you in there with all those snakes that's flooding.

Speaker 1: 3:30

Basically, it's emotional torture and it shuts down behavior temporarily. It suppresses behavior along with very harsh punishment. So if you look at the videos that dog daddy has first of all, the dogs are fear aggressive. You're gonna be hard pressed to find any dog that is not fear aggressive and I want you to think about this no animal goes into fight or flight unless they perceive something as threatening. Okay, what does dog daddy do? He grabs the leash Most of these dogs have prong collars on it which are very painful and then he hangs them with the leash, gets them to submit, breaks them with the use of emotional torture, flooding, and then everybody goes ooh, ah, wow, the dog's not aggressive anymore, he's petting the dog.

Speaker 1: 4:38

The dog is scared to death. The dog is scared to death that he might die, because you know, when you hang the dog, you're cutting off air supply and if you don't have oxygen, you're going to die. Imagine what your emotional state would be if you're having difficulty breathing. You're in pain. Somebody just grabbed you and started hanging you. When the dog shuts down, it's temporary, it's smoke and mirrors.

Speaker 1: 5:09

The guy is a showman. You can see that by the way he dresses, by the way he talks, and I'm not making fun of him. He's a showman, he knows it. He does his videos and his seminars and he makes them extremely dramatic. Okay, he knows how to play with your emotions. He's an incredible salesman, incredible at marketing and, unfortunately, he's really good at abusing dogs. What you don't see is what happens to these dogs the next day, two days later, a week later, two weeks later, two months later, maybe three months later.

Speaker 1: 5:53

The aggression always comes back. The aggression always comes back, and this time worse. Because you have to. If you want to deal with the problem, you have to get at the root of the problem the aggressive behavior. Yeah, it's a problem, but it's not the root problem. See, underlying that aggression is fear, anxiety and stress. The dog is viewing something as threatening. The dog's afraid. Change that fear, get rid of that fear, get rid of that anxiety and that stress. Change the underlying emotional state and how the dog perceives the trigger another dog or a person and the dog's got no need to be aggressive.

Speaker 1: 6:42

But when you use punishment, like dog daddy did, when you use flooding, it's like putting a lid on the top of a pot of boiling water. Oh, everything looks good, that aggressively, boiling water is gone, wow, but what happens? What happens when you put that lid on the top of boiling water? The pressure is going to build and build and build and then eventually that lid's going to pop, boom. All that water is going to go crazy all over the place. That's the same thing that's going on here. When you use punishment, when you use flooding, you are putting a lid, you are suppressing that dog's outward behavior. Not, the dog is anxious and fearful, but now the dog has no outlet. So the pressure builds and builds and builds and the dog's too afraid to act out aggressively. It wants distance and space bad. And eventually the pressure becomes too much and the dog snaps. And unfortunately it's probably going to happen to the pet parent, the pet guardian, the dog owner, because it happens later typically.

Speaker 1: 7:58

Oh, you can use those methods on dogs and they'll bite you in the process and, trust me, it will happen to the dog daddy. I've been doing this for 35 years. I specialize in severe aggression, fears, phobias, anxiety, he's going to get bit and it's going to be bad. And people that watch him and love what he does, that are going to go home and try to do that with their own dogs. They're going to get hurt, they're going to get bit. This is not dog training, what he's doing. Any five-year-old can abuse a dog. It doesn't take any skill. But you love it because it's quick and it looks like everything's great. But you can't trust your eyes. You got to trust science. You have to understand what's really going on. You're not following those dogs after the videos or after the seminars to see what happens down the road.

Speaker 1: 9:03

As somebody who's been doing this for 35 years, someone who's certified a positive reinforcement trainer, I come behind trainer after trainer after trainer that does the same thing that dog daddy's doing, and the calls that I get are all the same. Well, we went to this trainer or we sent our dog to board and train and they came back and everything was great Until, yeah, until the dog couldn't take it anymore and snapped because nobody dealt with the underlying root cause. Nobody dealt with the anxiety. Again, you get rid of that fear and that anxiety. You are getting rid of the aggression. The last thing, the last thing you want to do with the dog like that is use any kind of method or any kind of tool that is going to create any level of fear, anxiety, pain or stress. That's the last thing we want to do. Really good dog training does not get the dog out of control in that red zone for dramatic purposes for the camera. We don't put the dogs through that kind of torture. The goal is to stop that behavior.

Speaker 2: 10:33

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Speaker 1: 11:41

American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior, speaking out against this, the American Animal Hospital Association, the Association of Professional Dog Trainers, the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants, the Pet Professional Guild, the British Veterinary Association, the British Small Animal Veterinary Association, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the UK Kennel Club, the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association, the Canadian Association of Professional Pet Dog Trainers, the Australian Veterinary Association, the Australian Association of Professional Dog Trainers, the American Humane Society, the Humane Society of the United States, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the National Association of Dog Obedience Instructors, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council. They have all. Oh, here's a couple more the Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers and the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants. Those are just a few organizations that have spoken out about the use of punishment, the use of aversives in training and how it is going to cause harm down the road and it's just a temporary fix. If that Now, are they all wrong?

Speaker 1: 13:13

All those agencies, all those veterinarians that go to school forever, all of us that have a master's degree and a PhD and are certified? We're all wrong. Right, dog Daddy's right, you that love watching the videos. You're correct. We're all wrong. Forget the science, forget research. Study after research, study after research study. Science after scientific study after scientific study. I've got seven pages. Study after study after study after study. I guess they're all wrong too. No, the jury's not out. The verdict is in. It's been in, it's been in for decades. We know that this is smoke and mirrors, that this doesn't work. There's dedicated research, science behind this. I can't believe I'm even having to say these things and I don't want to get off into other things. I don't want to get into discussions about how our culture has changed. I don't want to get into discussions about politics. I don't want to get into discussions about the state of the education in this country or the lack of it.

Speaker 1: 14:50

As a dog guardian, as a pet parent, as an owner, you need to really shop around if you're looking for some type of pet professional to help you with training or behavior. The dog training industry is completely unregulated. There are no guidelines, there is no oversight. Anybody can be a dog trainer. You don't need any education. As a matter of fact, you don't even have to own a dog. You may never have owned a dog in your life. You might have a fourth grade education and you've got no skills and you've never trained a dog. You can go out tomorrow and say, hey, I'm a dog trainer, start collecting money and training dogs.

Speaker 1: 15:34

That's scary because when you pick up the phone, when you get on the internet and you look at somebody's website who calls themselves a trainer, you just automatically assume well, they've got education, they've got certification, licensure, insurance, like any real profession. It's amazing. Your barber, your hairdresser, your nail tech, your doctors, your nurses, your teachers, your electrician welders, your AC and heating person they all have to have formal education. Then they have to prove that they've got the knowledge and the skills by going through a certification process Part of that certification process, in addition to proving that they understand and they've got the knowledge and the skills to do the job. But they also have to follow a certain set of guidelines and ethical guidelines. They need to have continuing education every year to stay on top of the latest and greatest science and information. That is what makes excellence that anybody can be a dog trainer.

Speaker 1: 17:03

I follow the science, I follow the research. Listen, the jury came in a long time ago. The verdict's been read Punishment. The use of aversives is much less effective than positive reinforcement, that there are long-term psychological effects with the type of techniques, the type of so-called training that the carnival barker, the dog daddy I'm sorry I shouldn't have said that. I apologize, I'm just beside myself. It's not so much that I'm beside myself about what he's doing, although I am, but it's reading the comments, comments after comments after comments after comments, and social media. So loving this guy, worshiping this guy. God forbid somebody that really knows what they're talking about, like myself or another behaviorist behavior consultant, professional trainer that has taken the time to get the formal education, that has gone through a voluntary because it's not mandatory voluntary certification process so that we could be at the top of our profession. Why? Because it can help more dogs, it can be more effective.

Speaker 1: 18:34

But the dog daddy no certification, no education, self-proclaimed expert doesn't take anything to abuse a dog. I could do the same thing he does easily, easily, boy. I bet I could make a lot of money the dog granddaddy, but I don't want to hurt dogs the way he is. I don't know if anything's going to change. I hope someday his eyes will be open. Maybe it's going to take him getting attacked and bitten really bad using this BS, so-called training method, punishment and torture. A four-year-old could do that and social media is all loving this.

Speaker 1: 19:34

All you have to do is understand a little bit of canine body language and what stress signals are, and you take a look at those dogs. They are stressed out, anxious, fearful to the max. The only reason they're not aggressive is they're scared. Is that what you want? You're going to have to keep your dog scared all the time because, trust me, the pressure builds right. I'm telling you, yep, you punish that aggression and you don't do anything about that underlying emotional state. It's coming, it's coming. I don't know if it's today, I don't know if it's tomorrow, I don't know if it's next week, I don't know if it's three months for now, but it's coming back. You mark my words.

Speaker 1: 20:26

And if you've tried this with your dog, or you've had other trainers that have done this with your dog, or if you love watching the dog daddy and you try this with your dog, or you know somebody else that did follow the dog down the road, follow it one month, two months, three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, 24 months, tell me what the outcome is, because I get calls every day, same story. I sent my dog away to a two week board and train. They said they could fix the aggression. I hired a private trainer. They came in the house. We did a series of six private lessons. Everything seemed fantastic when we were done with training and then they tell me but then it came back and now it's worse.

Speaker 1: 21:15

And I say, how long did it take for the aggression to come back? It's usually always around two months. I mean, I shouldn't say always, but many times it's around that two month timeframe. You know somebody that uses these methods. Follow the dog for three months. You don't believe me. Follow the dogs. I get the calls all day long. I'm coming behind trainers like the dog daddy fixing their eff-ups. It's frustrating. Good dog training, good behavior modification, is boring If you watch it. It's boring. That's why I don't do many videos of training. It's boring because you're keeping the dog calm. You're keeping the dog relaxed. The dog daddy's videos they're exciting as hell. You know it's like a feature production. You got the music. You got the dog exploding. It's like a thriller movie with explosions going off. We love that stuff, don't we as Americans? Quick fixes and things that are just outrageous. I think we had a president like that, also denied science, also believed in alternative truths, alternative facts. Man I don't know. Have a good rest of your day.